The Case Against Reality | Prof. Donald Hoffman on Conscious Agent Theory

We have no clue how consciousness emerges from 3 pounds of wet goo. Cognitive scientist Don Hoffman takes us deep into his research suggesting we’re attacking the problem backwards. The implications may challenge all you know about our place in reality. Take the Red Pill and see how deep the rabbit hole goes... In this extended interview we dive into the Interface Theory of Perception (how evolution hides the truth about reality in favor of a dumbed down “user interface“ that only shows us “fitness payoffs“ that help us survive), the “Hard Problem of Consciousness“ and how we simply have no idea how consciousness could emerge from physical matter, the non-dual theory of Conscious Realism (how reality is really a social network of “conscious agents“ and our perceptions are simply the interface by which we exchange experience with other agents), the math behind conscious agent theory, implications for artificial intelligence (AI), psychedelics, spirituality, and much, much more. Commenters have called this the best interview Don Hoffman has done. Links to our prior conversation, more info on Conscious Agent Theory and Prof. Hoffman’s work, and full written transcript at All audio podcast platforms are available, links here: 0:00 Intro 1:22 Are we machines? Don’s motives for studying reality & his background in artificial intelligence & mathematics 6:38 Evolutionary game theory and how organisms are tuned to see fitness payoffs, not objective reality 11:46 The “Grand Theft Auto” analogy of perception as interface/symbolic representation 14:41 Differentiating solipsism & why we don’t just see SOME objective reality, we see NONE of it (YOU are the author of space and time) 21:06 The hard problem of consciousness and WHY it’s hard from a physicalist perspective 28:38 Conscious agent theory: consciousness is fundamental (rather than emerging from matter) 39:36 Challenging perceptual psychology; Piaget and object permanence 7:06 Amplituhedron and projecting quantum mechanics and relativity from conscious agent theory 50:42 Impact this theory can have on modern medicine and our limited understanding of mental health disorders 01:01:44 Deeper down the rabbit hole, and what happens when we die? 01:08:40 Artificial intelligence as a way to open new interfaces into the conscious agent realm 01:27:58 Examining Evolutionary Psychology; its relation to consciousness and resource limitation, logic & reason as tools of social persuasion 01:40:30 Psychedelics and meditation as tools to hack our perceptual interface and experience other conscious agents 01:47:02 Synesthetes as a glimpse into interface theory, evolution, and more #consciousness #consciousagents #donaldhoffman Send Us Email: hello@ Send Us Hate Mail: 1025 Alameda De Las Pulgas 218 Belmont, CA 94002